Mindful Homes | Anjie Cho
Intro: Welcome to the one and only interior design book podcast, Decorating by the Book, hosted by Suzy Chase from her dining room table in New York City. Join Suzy for conversations about the latest and greatest interior design books with the authors who wrote them.
Anjie Cho: My name is Anjie Cho, and I'm the author of Mindful Homes: Create Healing Living Spaces with Mindfulness and Feng Shui.
Suzy Chase: In the book, you wrote, "Please consider and be curious about how to look through and beyond our typical doing mindset. This book is not an exhaustive to-do list, but an invitation to see, feel, taste, touch, and hear your home say, 'Hello,' and become friendly with your inner and outer spaces." Anjie, I'm thrilled to have you on the podcast today because I know nothing about the art of feng shui. The Chinese words feng shui translate directly to wind and water, I learned in your book. Talk a little bit about the connection between mindfulness and feng shui.
Anjie Cho: Thank you, Suzy. What a wonderful, thoughtful question and introduction. So I'd love to talk about the connection between mindfulness and feng shui because I feel that they're very similar, almost the same thing, and both mindfulness and feng shui are about seeing and connecting to the inner and the outer. So feng shui looks at how to connect your inner environment with your outer environment, and meditation and mindfulness practices are also about looking at how you are interconnected and interdependent with the world around you, the people around you. And so really they're both the same practice in so many ways. And ultimately, both of them are practices in which to invite each of us as human beings to become more friendly with our home, whether our home means our own minds, whether it means our bodies, whether it means the spaces that we inhabit.
Suzy Chase: How did you become interested in the practice of mindful spaces?
Anjie Cho: So I studied architecture in college, and I went out into the workplace and I started practicing architecture. So I was an architectural apprentice for a decade or more before I started to get older. You get in your late 20s, and you start to rethink your life. And I realized that I needed to make a shift. I was pretty unhappy, just going to the architecture office every day, and just working, and then waiting till the day was over so I could go home and go to sleep, and then to start the whole thing over again. And it was a really unhappy time for me. So I made a pivot in my life. I realized I needed to incorporate more spirituality, so I started studying yoga and meditation. And that naturally guided me to consider, "How can I incorporate more spirituality in the work that I do, what I spend all my waking hours basically doing?"
So I started to explore feng shui, and I was really delighted to find out, to uncover that it's much more than a quick fix of moving a piece furniture around or painting your door red. But really, it's a whole lifestyle and philosophy. And not only did it teach me to deepen my connection with how I work with my clients in their spaces and their homes, but it also opened up opportunities for me to become an entrepreneur. I never thought I would have my own business. I had zero aspirations for that. I just thought I would be working for someone my whole entire life. I never thought I would write two books. I never thought I would be on a podcast with you. It really shifted my life. And that, in tandem with becoming a more and more, I guess, seasoned meditation practitioner, the more that I meditated and the more that I practiced feng shui, I saw that the two practices were the same.
Suzy Chase: Speaking of quick fixes. In the media, I've noticed that feng shui has been positioned as a quick fix, a fast exercise, "Turn your bed this way and your life will change," type of thing. And you talk about how cultural appropriation is to have cultural appreciation. Could you talk a little bit about this concept?
Anjie Cho: Our world, our Western world is very accustomed to thinking, to believing that things can be fixed or that we need to be fixed, and then we're looking for a quick fix. That's an easy sell. But I think that most of us know from our experience that it's not that simple. From the Asian perspective, it's a yes-and situation. So yes, it can be a simple quick fix, but at the same time, there's the other side of the coin where it does require deepening your experience as well. So it's yes and both. So it can be simple and complex at the same time. So I think that may tie into the second part of your question about the cultural appreciation.
So in my book, I talk about how instead of culturally appropriating and just taking something and distilling it into like a listicle of things, how can we instead have appreciation for things that come from other cultures or other experiences and work with these practices with some kind of dignity? So that's really like what it's about. It's about not culturally appropriating, but instead appreciating and understanding and have having curiosity. And when you'd make one change, like you talked about at the bed, you could shift your bed and your whole life can change. That's part of my story. But at the same time, so many other things have to happen as well. So it's a paradoxical way of thinking, and it's much more of an Eastern viewpoint.
Suzy Chase: So I'm curious about the concept of a healing living space. You kicked the book off talking about the unseen flow of chi. What is chi?
Anjie Cho: So chi is sometimes spelled C-H-I, sometimes spelled Q-I. The Japanese version is K-I. And if you're a yoga practitioner, you may know what prana is. And those are all similar concepts in which it's looking at a life force energy, and this concept of chi is inviting us to see that there is something beyond what is visible in the world, so acknowledging that we are not just our bodies and our homes. We're not just our homes. We're very conditioned to think, "Oh, our home is totally separate from us."
But if we think about it, it's really common sense to know your experience of maybe living in a childhood home versus a home that you live in now versus a really nice place you go to visit on vacation versus you can imagine maybe a really uncomfortable place that you visited, all of these environments create different sorts of chi, different life energy around you. So feng shui really looks at, "What is the chi of the space? what is the energy of the space? What is the life force energy of the space and how it affects us as we inhabit it?"
Suzy Chase: A foundational principle of feng shui is the commanding position. What is that?
Anjie Cho: So the commanding position is a way of outlining how you can set yourself up in a space. It's most important to apply on your bed, your desk, or your stove. Your bed represents you. Your stove represents your wealth, and abundance, and your resources, and your health. And then your desk represents your career or your path in life. So ideally, if you are laying in bed, sitting at your desk, or cooking at your stove, you want to be able to see the door to the room without directly being aligned with the door. So if we gave the example of the bed, you would probably be diagonal from the door or kitty-corner from the door. And ideally, you don't want to set up your bed so that when you're lying in bed, your feet are pointing straight out the door. You want to have a secure, solid wall behind you.
So this foundational principle of feng shui, the commanding position is really examination of how as humans, we are very frontally focused and a lot of our resources, our old mind feels most comfortable when we are in a safe place, a secure place. So when we set ourselves up when we're sleeping in bed and unconscious for eight hours a night and we can't see the door, our old mind is in a fight or flight response. And that, in turn, affects how well we can sleep. And this is the same for our desk when we're working. We're already stressed out maybe a little bit working. I've been pretty stressed out late lately working. And then if you're on top of that in a position where you're old mind can't see the door, then you are just exacerbating your fight or flight response and your stress levels.
So in a very physiological way, the commanding position supports us to have more ease. And then there's this other metaphorical aspect of the commanding position where sometimes, we are not ready to see things coming towards us. And when we turn around and allow ourselves to see the door, what that means is that metaphorically we're allowing ourselves to see opportunities come to us, see where the energy, the chi is coming into our space and our lives and we're not afraid, we're not fearful, that we have our eyes open so we can see our opportunities rather than walking around staring at a wall with our back to the door.
Suzy Chase: It's springtime. And for many of us, springtime is for cleaning. Talk a bit about the connection between spaces and objects in our home, specifically simplifying with mindfulness.
Anjie Cho: I think that clutter is a buzzword now. There's a lot of shame involved with that too. So many times, I go into people's homes because I'm also an architect, so I do renovations here in New York City. And a lot of times, I go into a home, whether it's for a feng shui consultation or for a design consultation, and people will say, "Oh my God, I'm so sorry it's so cluttered." And it's not. There's so much shame involved or expectations people think they have to have these perfectly minimalistic homes, but feng shui is not about decluttering, nor is it about being minimal. You told me before that you are a maximalist, and that's included.
So what is different is when someone is in maybe a hoarding situation, that's much different than clutter. So I think the first connection is to know that when feng shui was developed, there was no such thing as clutter because we weren't in this consumer-based society where we buy so much stuff. Now, having family heirlooms and things that are meaningful to in your home can be very supportive. And even if it's what someone might consider a lot of stuff, that's okay if it works for you, it's your home. What is challenging is when you literally can't walk in your home, you can't walk through your home, or you can't sleep on half of your bed because there's too much stuff there. I mean, that's definitely a physical manifestation of different types of emotions that are creating obstacles in our life. So sometimes, we have emotional obstacles that manifest as physical obstacles.
I do also love that connection that people make with Spring cleaning and feng shui because it's a time when they're like, "Oh, yay, it's not cold anymore. We could go outside a little bit. It's sunny. We can take off that down jacket we've been wearing for four months every day." It gives us a chance to stretch out and go through those dusty corners and move the chi, the energy around our homes that's been stagnant. So I think that's a wonderful thing and that's definitely a feng shui practice, but clutter isn't necessarily like the same thing. And I think that the first approach is to look at the reality of the situation and then not judge yourself for it.
Suzy Chase: If we are a newbie or a DIYer and want to start incorporating feng shui this weekend, you say start with the bedroom. The bedroom is the most sacred space and one of the only private rooms in the home. Let's walk through some feng shui shifts for our bedroom. So you were saying with the commanding position of the bed, we should be able to see the door but not be positioned right in front of the door. So what if we can't move our bed around? What are some tips for that?
Anjie Cho: That's a great question because sometimes you cannot do that. I have to just say though, some people say they "can't move their bed," but they just don't want to. So that's different. So some people are very resistant and that's okay. I just notice you're resistant, and I've had clients who have been resistant to moving their bed for years and then finally they tell me they're going to do it. And it corresponds to them actually starting to take care of themselves in their lives. So if you can't place your bed in the commanding position, you can set up a mirror so that when you're lying in bed, you can see the reflection of the door in the mirror. For instance, I like to recommend a standing mirror so it's easy to position because it's kind of like a game of pool, you have to make sure you get all the angles right. But having a mirror set up that allows you to see the reflection of the door in the mirror while you're laying in bed can be a way to correct a bed that's out of command.
Suzy Chase: What about the headboard?
Anjie Cho: So a headboard is considered an important part of your bed because it actually provides stability, and the headboard should really be fastened to the bed if at all possible. It's kind of like your bed has your back and has the back of you and your partner. And if you're single, it can also correspond to having that connection and support with your masculine and your feminine side. If you really hate a headboard, again, it's your home, but it is recommended for feng shui.
Suzy Chase: So you also say the size of the bed matters. Talk a little bit about that.
Anjie Cho: You would think that this would be very common sense, but it's not. So if you're, for instance, single and you have a twin bed, it's a little bit problematic for a relationship because you have no room for a partner. I make a kind of funny story in my book, I talk about the story where if you're interested in someone and you see that they have a single bed, they're not ready to accommodate a partner in their life.
Suzy Chase: Oh my god. Wow.
Anjie Cho: I see men, they have a bigger bed, but they only have one pillow. And then I say, "Okay, well you should get another pillow." And then they have a really nice pillow for themselves and then they get the cheapest pillow or the other side of the bed. Dead giveaway, right?
Suzy Chase: Yes. When I first met my husband, I was living in a railroad apartment on Perry Street in the West Village, and I had bunk beds. I'm scared to even find out what that means.
Anjie Cho: Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait, you had two beds?
Suzy Chase: I had bunk beds, yeah. They were on top of each other because it was so narrow.
Anjie Cho: Oh, but did you have a desk under the lofted bed?
Suzy Chase: No, I just had another bed under the bed.
Anjie Cho: Well, it's okay, you're married now. We'll-
Suzy Chase: Anywho, yeah.
Anjie Cho: It turned out okay.
Suzy Chase: It did.
Anjie Cho: But there's a lot of things that we can read into that situation. Also, alternatively, if someone has a huge king bed, which I know a lot of people like, especially in the U.S. outside of New York City, that can be okay. But, sometimes, it could be too much space between the partners. So you have to also gauge it with the state of your relationship, what you want in your relationship. And if you feel like things can be more cozy with you and your relationship and your partner, maybe you get a cozier bed like you go for a queen instead of the king. But having a single bed and you're looking for partner is definitely you're giving the message to the universe that you don't really have space to accommodate someone.
Suzy Chase: Should we focus on what's going on underneath the bed?
Anjie Cho: Absolutely. So that's another thing that I think people sometimes forget and we don't notice. But when we're lying in bed, first of all, we're unconscious. So we're really susceptible to all the things around us, and what we sleep over affects us. And for the naysayers in the room, okay. So if you have, let's say, a box of mementos from that ex that left you at the altar or something like that, so you have this really emotionally-charged box of mementos and you keep it under your bed, number one, you've already acknowledged that these objects are very emotional for you. And you've already acknowledged that they hold a lot of chi, a lot life force energy. And it doesn't matter if it's good or bad, there's lots of chi there. It's very active. So even shoes could represent active chi or active energy. But if you have it under your bed, do you really want to sleep under this emotionally-charged, super-active thing? You can keep the box, but maybe it doesn't belong under your bed.
One of my graduates told me recently that in one of his case studies, he had this older woman whose husband passed away quite some time ago, and she was still sleeping with his belongings and photographs and mementos right under her bed. And so he encouraged her to let those go because she wanted to get out into the world, maybe start dating again. She was so delighted when someone pointed it out and gave her permission to let them go. What she did was she boxed them up to give to her kids, and it was a really joyful experience for her. But sometimes, we just don't realize what are we sleeping over and what does that represent?
So ideally, you want under your bed nothing if you can. But if you have to have something like storage, stick to sleep-related items like soft things like linens and pillows because that's the kind of energy, the kind of energy, the kind of chi you want around you while you sleep. You don't want to be super invigorated by suitcases, and educational books, and computer screens, and athletic shoes, and gym equipment. You kind of want to have something that corresponds to the same energy of sleep, and rest, and rejuvenation.
Suzy Chase: Now, how should we be thinking about bed linens and pajamas?
Anjie Cho: The linens that we surround ourselves with, that we cocoon ourselves with, or the pajamas that we wear in bed, we have the responsibility to do the best we can with what we have so to purchase the most non-toxic, the most environmentally friendly, the most ethical products we can. And it's kind of a win-win because you're also bringing that lifecycle energy around you. Your skin is your largest organ so if you have pajamas that are synthetic that are made in a factory with a lot of pain around it, you're absorbing that chi when you're sleeping. Whereas, if you can afford it, you do the best with what you can and treat yourself and buy the highest quality you can and with products that are made with ethically-minded and with love, and that will be the chi that you surround yourself with while you're sleeping, resting, and rejuvenating.
Suzy Chase: So electronics in the bedroom, yay or nay?
Anjie Cho: So ideally, again, we would reduce amount of electronics just like we'd reduce amount of active things under our bed because it's just very active energy. I don't think as humans we've evolved to really work with this increase in technology. That said, you do the best you can with what you have. Shutting down your electronics and your devices and having a few hours away from them and being away from the blue light can really support our sleep and our rest. Also, we're just so used to being on all the time, we're on high alert, our phones can beep, emails come in. There's so many different ways people can reach us, so our attention and our overwhelm and our burnout is quite high right now. So, why not just allow yourself the permission to wind down, read the nice novel, and crawl into bed, and get cozy?
Suzy Chase: Next, we should check in to see if the colors in our bedroom reflect the energies we want, need, or require. What are the five elements that will guide our color selections?
Anjie Cho: It's like a foundational system in the Asian world, and it's also the basis of things like Chinese medicine, acupuncture, martial arts, feng shui, just to name a few. Even Japanese flower arranging has these five elements and they're earth, metal, water, wood, and fire. There's different ways that they can manifest or be represented, and one of them is color. And I think, especially with people who are interested in their homes, and interiors, and the home décor, color is a really powerful way to make a shift because we're visual people. Humans are visual. So if someone wanted a more cozy bed, more stability, and they need more grounding, then they would need more earth element. And the colors are yellow, brown, and earthy tones. One thing to watch out for, if you hibernate a lot and you're prone to staying in bed and it's hard to get out of bed, you might need less of those colors.
If you need more clarity and more joy, that's related to the metal element, which is white, off-white, gray, and metallics. So that's really helpful for creating more precision in your life. But sometimes if you put too much white, gray, metal, and so forth, metal element, it could be too sharp. So white's also great to combine with other colors to soften it. If somebody needs more depth, and more deepening, and more wisdom in their life, they can bring in the water element, which is black, charcoals, and midnight blues. And they're great if you want to create that deeper connection to yourself. But if you're prone to depression, it may not be the best color to have. I've had students that had their whole bedrooms black, which is kind of in right now, but they're really depressed so I had to tell them, "Maybe you need a different color for your bedroom because it's adding to your depression."
And if you are working through a lot of sadness and you need some more healing, uplifting, and more energizing, and you want to get out of bed more, maybe wood element's for you. So the colors of the wood element are blue, green, and teal. There's many different hues and different tones that you can invite in, different types of blues, greens, and teals. But if you want that more energetic side, maybe you want the brighter versions of those. But if you want more rest, and support, and more healing, maybe you would take the more muted blues, greens, and teals. And then finally, if you'd like some more inspiration, more passion, more activity, you can use the fire element, which is red and very, fiery, intense oranges. But you want to be very selective because I think we all know a little goes a long way. Right?
Suzy Chase: So with these colors, you can mix and match, right? You could have just a red throw pillow on your bed?
Anjie Cho: Exactly. That's actually a great way to do it is to just try adding a throw pillow or throw blanket to bring that color in your room, or a vase. Or, actually, maybe you make your own piece of art that you try and you see how it feels and so you can shift it. And yes, you can bring them together. You don't want just only like a metal room necessarily. Maybe you need a few things, you want metal, water, and wood. Or you could also balance all five of them and have some representation of all of the five elements in your room, maybe a little hint of red somewhere, and then all the other colors as well in a way that suits your style.
Suzy Chase: Where can we find you on the web and social media?
Anjie Cho: My website is anjiecho.com, that's A-N-J-I-E-C-H-O.com, and Instagram @anjiecho, same A-N-J-I-E-C-H-O.
Suzy Chase: When we cultivate mindful homes, we can begin to see that the destiny of our lives and actions are intrinsically connected to all other living beings and everything around us. This has been so informative. Thanks, Anjie, for coming on Decorating by the Book podcast.
Anjie Cho: Thank you so much, Suzy. It was so much fun.
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