Interiors For Collectors | John Phifer Marrs
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Intro: Welcome to the one and only interior design book podcast, Decorating By The Book, hosted by Suzy Chase from her dining room table in New York City. Join Suzy for conversations about the latest and greatest interior design books with the authors who wrote them.
John Phifer Marrs: This John Phifer Marrs and my newest book is Interiors for Collectors.
Suzy Chase: Before diving into this book, I'd like to thank my new sponsor, Bloomist. Bloomist creates and curates simple, sustainable products that inspire you to design a calm, natural refuge at home. I'm excited to announce that they just introduced a new tabletop and kitchen collection that's truly stunning. So surround yourself with beautiful elements of nature when you're cooking dining and entertaining and make nature home. Visit bloomist.com and use the code Decorating20 to get 20% off your first purchase or click the link in the show notes. Now on with the show.
Suzy Chase: I strongly think collecting is rooted in learning. It's like you go deeper and deeper into a subject. Why do you think people collect?
John Phifer Marrs: Well, I think there's a fascination that people have for things, just as color and texture appeal to each of us differently. Some people like red, some people like blues, some people like green. It's the same thing with collecting. I love Parian ware. I love the soft creaminess of it. There's something about it to me is very beautiful. Probably means nothing to someone else. They wouldn't care. But I just think it's just part of our nature and we like to accumulate things. I really believe that.
Suzy Chase: You are an interior designer and purveyor of antiques and you help clients build collections, which sounds so fascinating to me. In the introduction, you talk about how friends told you that you needed to write a book and you said, "The last thing the world needs is another coffee table book on decorating," which made me chuckle. Then one day it just hits you while you were looking through photos of homes you've worked on and I would love to hear that story.
John Phifer Marrs: That is all true. I think people were teasing me, friends, "Well, when are you writing your book on decorating?" Because almost every designer now has a book out on their work and I think it's great. I probably buy all of them. I'm surrounded by books. I'm sitting in the library at home and there's books all over the place. And I go to book signings all the time, especially if it's someone I know that puts out a book, I'll go. I just really thought, there's so many beautiful books out there and I'm lucky enough to have had a lot of beautiful projects, but I just don't really feel it's worth the effort to just have a book full of beautiful rooms that John Phifer Marrs has done. Now, I knew my friends would be interested in it, but I wasn't sure beyond that where it would go. But it made me think, and I started researching all the photography of projects I had over the last 35 years, putting them together, laying them out on a table and just looking at them.
John Phifer Marrs: And I don't know a light bulb went off and I thought, gosh, I have worked with so many people that are collectors. And I have been involved in organizing, editing, displaying, putting together that collection or collections in a residence for them. That's the key word there, in a residence. These are not museums. These are homes. And I find it interesting to live with collections. So I thought about that. I'm also a collector. I've always been someone that was interested in collecting things. It's changed since I was a kid. My taste changed. The more you learn, the more you have interest in different things. You find something unusual that you want to collect.
John Phifer Marrs: So anyway, the common denominator of all the photographs I thought collecting. I don't know if there is a book on collecting. I actually Googled books on collecting to see how many came up and there really weren't that many. So I thought I might have something here. And I was reinforced by an editor friend that said, I think I ran the idea by her and she said, "Oh, I think that's great. I like a book with a point of view." Okay, well, that's stuck with me, a book with a point of view. So a book about collecting with photos and examples of all my work, how you live with collections, how you enjoy your collections in a private home. So that became the premise for the book.
Suzy Chase: So back in college, there was a time when it dawned on you that if you put similar all objects together, something magical can happen. Can you talk a little bit about your dear friend with the miniature books?
John Phifer Marrs: Yes, because I love that story. And that's true. My friend, he had an uncanny ability to display and arrange things because that's what he loved was display. So he started purchasing these little miniature books and I don't think I really knew what a miniature book was. It was just a small book, but I didn't realize that it was actually type set in a very, very small type set. I remembered that I had a tiny little book that my grandmother had given me and it was a little prayer look. And so I gave it to him because I thought he would like it.
John Phifer Marrs: Anyway, my friend bought this crazy little red pagoda one day, it was like a doll house. It was red with a gold roof, strange little thing. And so he decided to arrange all of his miniature books inside this little pagoda, which he did brilliantly. And they were stacked and they were displayed on little bases that he made and he just outfitted the whole thing as a little display or a cabinet for his miniature books. And I just couldn't believe it. A, it was so interesting to see all of the books together put in one case. Instead of a little book here and a little book there, here they all were together and he arranged them so beautifully and they became so important when they were all put inside this one little pagoda.
John Phifer Marrs: So I was kind of blow away by that. And I guess it sort of stuck in my mind that if you're going to collect things it was better to organize them all in one cabinet or piece of furniture or room to give them the greatest focus. That's how it all started.
Suzy Chase: You just reminded me that I have a teeny tiny Bible that was passed down.
John Phifer Marrs Well, and another thing that I learned from him was as he started collecting and learning more about miniature books, he learned from dealers that sold them. And originally he had a set of Shakespeare and I thought that was fabulous. And I assumed that that was very, very valuable because it was the works of Shakespeare and so forth. Well, he said actually, the works of Shakespeare are very common and in the true world of miniature books, there's a lot of those out there. So that taught me something too.
John Phifer Marrs: The more you learn about what you're collecting, the more you realize the value of certain pieces and whether you care or not, at least you can take that into consideration when you're starting your collection or developing your collection. So I think the small Bibles are also common because my grandmother had one and people would find those and they would hand them down. So probably, some of those things aren't the most rare, but who cares? They're very interesting and very unusual.
Suzy Chase: So I believe small sterling silver cigarette holders was your first collection. Am I right?
John Phifer Marrs: Oh, you're right. You're right. You're right. How funny. Well, I loved old movies and so of course all the glamorous divas and movie stars, the Betty Davis's, they all smoked. And I thought smoking was so glamorous, little did I know. It was terrible. Again, cigarettes were such big part of table settings. And I had a book about table settings and they would show cigarette urns on the dining table filled with cigarettes. And there were these beautiful little urns, and most of them were sterling and they were sort of classical in shape, which that always appealed to me. And they had a purpose, they would hold cigarettes, maybe two on a table or sometimes at each place setting. So, wow. That was something I really bought into. I liked that and I could find them any place from a junk store to a nice antique shop. And at the time they were probably less than a hundred dollars, so it was easy to collect and I loved them.
Suzy Chase: So what are a couple of collections highlighted in the book?
John Phifer Marrs: Silhouettes. I love cutouts or silhouettes and I had been collecting them for a long time. I had my silhouette done as a kid, so it didn't mean anything to me until she gave it to me years later and then I started coming interested in silhouettes. I have another client that is featured in the book and she has some of the finest silhouettes by early American silhouette cutters. And she has really fine ones, much finer than what I have. I have a client that collects antique, Victorian silver. And that's featured all the way to a client that collects a lot of presidential and Americana, such as documents and things related to Abraham Lincoln, his desk and chair from the house of representatives, his life mask, his death mask. I mean so many interesting things that to do with our nation's history.
Suzy Chase: One that caught my eye was the Churchill memorabilia guy.
John Phifer Marrs: Well, there are two mentions of Churchill in the book. One was a client that had been to Churchill's home in England Chartwell. You're probably familiar with that. Churchill loved his office there, his study. And my client had visited and was really impressed with it. And he wanted the feeling of that in his new, at home office. So of course, Churchill's study was quite grand and quite large. His office was actually the apartment over a garage that was being converted to a office study for him. So my challenge was to give it the feel, the ambiance, of Churchill's true study on this small scale. So I copied the light colored floors, the wood floors were stained light. And the plaster design of the fireplace, I copied that. And then the ceiling was timbered wood and large beams. And so we actually bought antique beams and brought them in and had them installed on the ceiling and for support. So I gave it the feel of Chartwell as best I could. And then we incorporated his black and white photography of Churchill memorabilia, Churchill visiting things, photos of Churchill, we incorporated that for display up the staircase into the space and in other areas.
John Phifer Marrs: So that was one Churchill, but then another client actually has ... Well, Churchill was an artist, as you I'm sure know. He painted and so in this one small room in their home, we have a lot of Churchill paintings on the wall. And then they have this incredible lifelike sort of Madam Tussaud statue of Churchill in the room, which scares the dookie out of me. Every time I go around the corner and there he is standing there, so that's the other Churchill. And there is enormous piece of sculpture in there, I think it's Churchill's head and shoulders, which is huge and that's in the room too. So they're also Churchill fans, just like my other client.
Suzy Chase: The client with the Chartwell office said, it's so realistic he sometimes smells cigar smoke.
John Phifer Marrs: I thought that was pretty good. I said, "Okay, so you're happy, right?"
Suzy Chase: Yes.
John Phifer Marrs: He was very happy.
Suzy Chase: Definitely think he's happy. You say display your collection in one cabinet or on one wall for the greatest and display your collections in rooms you love and you use. I think that was a great example of it.
John Phifer Marrs: As I have mentioned probably in the book, in visiting someone's house for the first time, I'm always amazed. They will have a couple of pieces of say Amari porcelain in one room and they'll have two more in another room and then they'll have three in the bedroom and they'll have one in the entrance hall. And I said, "Oh, I didn't know you collected Amari?" And they said, well.
Suzy Chase: They say, "I don't."
John Phifer Marrs: I don't, I don't. I don't, I have a few pieces. I said, "Well, I think you've got quite a few. Tell me about it." "Well, my mother had some and my grandmother had some and then I bought a few," blah, blah, blah. So I said, "Well, I mean, they're really pretty." I said, "What if we put it all in that break front in the living room and painted the back of it a color that sort of made them pop. And they're like, "Oh, well, yeah, that would be nice." Okay. So I do that. And then, oh, I get such great credit. It's like I'm a genius.
John Phifer Marrs: Oh, okay. Yeah. A collection, an instant collection. But I'm serious. I can't tell you, that's happened a thousand times. I didn't know you collected this. I didn't know you collected that. Oh, I didn't either. So I put it all together. It's just like a book, books make a room. So you could be a collector of books, they don't all have to be first editions. I think books are beautiful and so I like to adorn a room with lots and lots of books.
John Phifer Marrs: So it's just as simple as that, organizing them. Maybe if you have a set of five plates, all the same pattern and instead of having them the bottom of the dusty old China cabinet, you can bring them out. And oftentimes I'll hang them in a semi-circle or around the top of a painting or over doorway and it sort of can add architectural interest. I love hanging plates because they're never crooked.
Suzy Chase: I love this book because it's not just a gorgeous coffee table book. It's personalized by you with firsthand observations and situations with clients.
John Phifer Marrs: Well, thank you, Suzy. I appreciate that. I decided to write it myself and not have a ghostwriter. So that could have been a mistake, so I'm glad you like it. I think many people that have beautiful design books, and there's so many beautiful one's out there and they're just gorgeous, but many times they have someone else write the book. And they have photographers and they put it all together, but I really wanted this to be me. And I thought, this may be my one shot so it's going to be what I think and I'm going to write it myself. And so it's all those stories and those memories and I've all always been the keeper of the family whatevers that nobody else wanted. I'd always take it and love that if it belonged to an aunt or my grandmother or somebody that meant a lot to me. One story after another, that's the real joy of collecting, the joy of finding the pieces, the thrill of the hunt in other words.
Suzy Chase: I'm like you, I'm the keeper. I'm the last in my Chase line and so I have all the stuff from my Chase ancestors going all the way back to the Civil War. So you've kind of inspired me to get a cabinet and put it all in there because it's all different stuff. It's not one of the same thing.
John Phifer Marrs: But that's okay. You can create, if there's a common theme like it's all your family, then you can organize it by that. It could be memorabilia that had to do with the Chase family. So that's what it is. I started collecting pocket watch holders because I got both grandfathers pocket watches. You either put them in a drawer or you don't really get to enjoy them. So I discovered these wonderful, ornate little pocket watch holders that they've been making for the last 200 years and you can find, and the little pocket watch will hang from it. And so now they're sitting around on tables and I can see grandfather Marrs's pocket watch and my granddad Phifer's pocket watch with pocket watch holders. So that inspired me to start collecting pocket watch holders.
Suzy Chase: You say in the book collect what you love and want to live with for a while rather than what is collectable of the moment. What would you say is a hot collectible right now? Not that we're going to collect it, but just so we know.
John Phifer Marrs: Well, I'll tell you one of the big collectibles for men especially that they really like, minerals and geodes. Those are very hot right now. You know what I'm talking about?
Suzy Chase: Yeah. Rocks.
John Phifer Marrs: That's exactly, rocks. There's a story in the book about that. I was working on a client's home and we're dealing with the plans and construction and so there's a room developing and it's called the library. So we're talking about the shelves and what kind of wood to make the shelves out of and this and that. And I said, "Well, so do you have a lot of books?" And he said, "Books, what are you talking about?" I said, "Well, it's the library. I assume you have books." He said, "No, I don't have any books. I don't have any books. It's all minerals. I'm putting my minerals in there." I said, "Oh, so maybe we should change it to the mineral room." "No, we'll just call it the library?" I said, "Okay, that was fine." So truly what I thought was going to be shelves of books became shelves of minerals or geodes.
John Phifer Marrs: Well guess what? Those suckers don't stand up on their own. So again, that's part of my job. I have to have someone create these little iron bases that cradle each geode and hold it up. They're heavy, very, very heavy. And so that you can set it in there, not damage it and then be able to put it on shelf and arrange it aesthetically interesting. We had to measure all these geodes, have all these bases made and then figure out the arrangement of the shelves, how tall, how this and that to go in there. And so then one day I'm putting all the geodes in and I'm just setting them up there, I have some guys helping me. And the client comes in, "Oh, you've got that one backwards." And I said, "Well, excuse me. It's just a rock. I didn't really realize it had a front and a back, but okay."
John Phifer Marrs: So he had a great sense of humor and we would laugh about it, but that's the kind of stuff I do, have bases built, install them on the shelves, put fabric behind it to give it a texture that might contrast and enhance the look of the geode color or texture wise. And then light it, either each shelf is illuminated with sort of a strip lighting or you light from the ceiling with a recessed art light that beams down on it. So that's all my domain. That's what I do.
Suzy Chase: So where can we find you on the web and social media?
John Phifer Marrs: Well, my website is JohnMarrs.com. And then social media, I have @John_Phifer_Marrs. That's my main Instagram account. And then I also have another Instagram account called @TheConfidentCollector, that sort of is a page showing installations of different collections and just fascinations with collections and what people collect and how to arrange them and things that I've seen. So there you go.
Suzy Chase: To purchase Interiors For Collectors and support the podcast, head on over to decoratingbythebook.com. And thank you so much, John, for coming on Decorating By The Book podcast.
John Phifer Marrs: Thank you, Suzy. It's been wonderful. I enjoyed it so much.
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