House Rules | Emma Beryl Kemper
Suzy Chase: When two podcasts collide, magic happens. Welcome to Dinner Party, the podcast where I bring together my two hit shows, Cookery by the Book and Decorating by the Book around here. We're all about cooking, sharing stories behind recipes, and creating a cozy home. I'm your host, Suzy Chase, a West Village wife, mom and homecook. Inspired by Martha Stewart trying to live in a Nora Ephron movie, surrounded by toile, plaid, cookbooks, decorating books and magazines, cooking in my galley kitchen and living my best life in my darling New York City apartment in the cutest neighborhood in the city, the West Village. So come hang out and let's get into the show.
Emma Beryl Kemper: I'm Emma Beryl Kemper author of House Rules.: 100 Ways to Feel At Home.
Suzy Chase: Home is such a personal and evolving concept. What inspired you to distill the essence of feeling at home into 100 rules? And how did you decide what made the cut?
Emma Beryl Kemper: I wrote the book that I wish that I had had when I was starting as an interior designer, so it's really soup to nuts, everything from how to gather inspiration, how to figure out your budget, what different styles of furniture look like all the way through to organizing your closet, hanging pictures on the wall, how high to hang a towel hook, just kind of everything because I think that it's really important to be able to think about the big concepts and then also kind of equally as important to be able to figure out the details of how to pull that together and how to actually implement all of that stuff.
Suzy Chase: I love it because a towel bar in your bathroom, I can get a TaskRabbit guy to come here, but he'll be like, where do you want it? I don't know. You tell me. But he doesn't know either.
Emma Beryl Kemper: Yeah, completely. And it's like you can Google it, but you never really know. And it's just these little things that if you have a guide in your back pocket somewhere where you can just flip and you're like, okay, that's the rule of thumb. It just makes you feel more confident in your decisions and that's not the kind of thing that you need to be stressing about.
Suzy Chase: Well, speaking of back pocket, this is the cutest, littlest book that you could almost fit in your back pocket, but you can definitely fit it into your purse when you're out and about looking around.
Emma Beryl Kemper: I love that. That was really my hope. I want people to kind of constantly be referencing it as they're working on a project, bring it out, chopping with you. Just really use it as a little handbook, easy to digest, little quick facts, hopefully organized in a way that makes it easy to understand where you are in the project and then kind of where to turn to. So it is little, but it is little on purpose.
Suzy Chase: Little bit mighty.
Emma Beryl Kemp...: Little bit mighty. Yeah.
Suzy Chase: I know I was raised with the notion that our homes were fixed and unchanging, but the pandemic really sparked the idea of homes as ever evolving stories. So how can we look at past trends to drill down on our personal style? What would be your first step?
Emma Beryl Kemper: I love that question. I think that kind of the most important thing is figuring out what has always been meaningful or exciting to you personally. So it's thinking back on is there a space from your childhood that made a big impact or is there a hotel that you visited that you kind of couldn't stop thinking about? Or even a movie set that really meant a lot to you. And looking at those things and figuring out what about those resonated so much and how can you incorporate that into your own design? And then I think there's a second and a third component of, but what is your actual house? It has to make sense within that, what is the architecture and then also where is your home? And I think if you combine all three of those things, you're building a space that feels really true to you and your home and where you are. And it's less about trends or what's cool right now. And I mean, I think we're all impacted by trends. I think it's a little bit impossible to not be, I don't think that's realistic, especially now Instagram and whatever. But I think it's more just like you can use that to inform your decisions a little bit, but mostly what always has spoken to you.
Suzy Chase: Can we just talk about that Boucle chair? How never again, hashtag never again with the literally
Emma Beryl Kemper: Never again, anything that you see that you then never stop seeing again or somehow end up seeing it in every single context. I feel like that's an automatic red flag. Just don't do it.
Suzy Chase: Yeah. So I know it's spring almost here in New York City and I know we should start thinking of doing a little spring cleaning. Talk about your concept of intentional purging.
Emma Beryl Kemper: I think that mean, especially as you said in New York, we all have smaller homes. Things get cluttered really, really quickly and I think sometimes it's as important and as impactful to edit through what you already have and get rid of or rethink pieces that you have even more than bringing new stuff in. And I think it's also really easy to go blind to your own space. So I think routinely looking around, checking in, seeing do I still like this? Have I been using this? Am I interacting with this? Do I even care about this anymore? And I think if the answer is no, see if you can use it somewhere else. I don't like wasting, I don't think it's just like let's get rid of all the things that we have, but if you can't reuse it somewhere else, you can't figure out a way to update it. It's probably time to part ways.
Suzy Chase: You just coined the term space blind. Great. Isn't there a term like eyebrow blind or
Emma Beryl Kemper: I've heard lip filler blind fill, which is ultimately another problem in New York these days.
Suzy Chase: Yes.
Emma Beryl Kemper: That's so funny.
Suzy Chase: You just coined a new term.
Emma Beryl Kemper: Yay.
Suzy Chase: So what's a hero piece?
Emma Beryl Kemper: Okay, so to me a hero piece is what defines the room. So I think at the most basic level it's like the bed in a bedroom, the dining table and a dining room. But I also think you can kind of think of it as what are you designing your space around? And that does open it up a little bit. So maybe you have this piece of art and you're like, I need this in my living room. And then that becomes the hero piece because it's what we're making all the decisions for the design of the room around. So it's really whatever is the most important, I think either functionally or just because of your own personal attachment to it. It's the first decision you make in a room that you're then going to make all your subsequent decisions around.
Suzy Chase: So speaking of the dining room table, could you talk a little bit about a few of the different shapes and what's best for seating or conversation, et cetera, et cetera?
Emma Beryl Kemper: Yeah, so I think the most traditional or most classic is probably just rectangular dining table, but then there's also all these other options. I love a round dining table. I think it's really chic. I think it's really conversational. I also think so many lines in a room are these hard right angles. So bringing in some soft curves with the round table or an oval dining table is always really nice. The other thing that's nice about those is if they have a pedestal base, you can kind of scoop more chairs in, so that gives a little bit more flexibility there. And then again, I'm so used to working in New York City, a little square sometimes makes the most sense in a kitchen if you really only have room for two. So I think depending on the amount of people that you want to seat, the way you want your room to feel, and then of course the actual space that you have, you have to figure out what is the middle of that Venn diagram, and then you have your table.
Suzy Chase: I'm dying for a round dining room table, but I can't switch out my dining room table.
Emma Beryl Kemper: And maybe that's why I think they're so she, because like if you can fit that good for you, yes,
Suzy Chase: You're winning.
Emma Beryl Kemper: We're so
Suzy Chase: Winning and I do feel like you can fit more people around a circular
Emma Beryl Kemper: Dining table. Yeah, definitely. So I think the rule of thumb is everyone needs 24 inches wide, and I feel like if you have a round dining table, especially because you don't have legs breaking it up, there is more flexibility in that you're not actually running out of space when you hit the end of the table.
Suzy Chase: And I feel like you can put more food in the middle,
Emma Beryl Kemper: A hundred percent prettier centerpieces. There's so many benefits.
Suzy Chase: I know one day, one day we'll have our round dining room table. I'm curious about design software now. If we're not a designer, how can we create a floor plan to see our ideas?
Emma Beryl Kemper: I was actually texting with a former client the other night and she was sending me these pictures. She is redesigning her kids' playroom and she did these little cutouts on graph paper of her furniture pieces and also of the room itself. It was all to scale and she was literally just sitting there almost like paper dolls or a dollhouse moving these furniture pieces around. I thought it was incredible. It's the easiest tool anybody could do it. So that's one very analog, easy way. Then there's also this program that I used to use a lot, it's called Room Sketcher, and it's almost like CAD for dummies. Basically you can just make very basic floor plans. You put in your little furniture blocks, you can move stuff around, and that was great. It's really good for trying out different furniture pieces and it's a lot easier to use and more intuitive than cad.
Suzy Chase: So you tell us not to be scared to use big pieces in small spaces. I love this. So talk about your philosophy behind this.
Emma Beryl Kemper: So I think if you have a little corner of your house or a small hallway or whatever and you don't make the most of it, you just put a little timid dinky console table or whatever, you kind of lose that space. But if you put something that's a little bit more important there either it actually maybe is a little bit too big, but it kind of just aggrandizes that moment or maybe it's a big piece of art or a giant plant or whatever, instead of just a forgotten about corner that is a little bit sad. You made it more special by putting something bigger and kind of more bold there. And then instead of just a forgotten corner, it's like, oh, that moment where my cool hutch is or that giant mirror or whatever. And it's really just making the most of all of the space that you have and making even the little transition areas or whatever, more special and have a presence of their own.
Suzy Chase: Oh my gosh. Speaking of transitional areas, you talk a lot about the function of your entryway. I'd love to hear about that because I don't know, my entryway is filled with coats and a desk and there's no rhyme or reason. I know you're very awesome. There's no rhyme or reason to it, I think.
Emma Beryl Kemper: So there's two important functions I think for an entry. What is the most practical, obvious one, which is what you just said, we need to put our coats down. We need a spot to take off our shoes. You need to drop the mail, look in the mirror, whatever. But then I think the other equally important function is it sets the tone for your house. So it's the first thing that you see when you walk in. It's the first impression, and I think you just want to maximize your entire home's footprint. This might be a weird analogy, but I remember a long time ago somebody told me that the vacation actually starts as soon as you get on the airplane. They were trying to explain upgrading your flights, but I was like, okay, I kind of get it. It's like as soon as you get there, this is the experience. And I kind of think the entryway is the same thing. It's like you step right inside and immediately it can either be a part of your home that inspires you, that kind of tells the story of what your design's going to be, or it can just be where you drop your keys. But I feel like obviously you want to make it as special and important as you can.
Suzy Chase: So you talk about color psychology in the book, for example. How does blue, my favorite color to decorate, with make us feel?
Emma Beryl Kemper: So blue makes us feel calm, serene, clean, which I think is probably what makes it such a popular color because it does, it just kind of washes over you. It makes you feel so refreshed and just, I don't know, nice.
Suzy Chase: And I think of it as a neutral.
Emma Beryl Kemper: Yeah, I think it can be a neutral too. I completely agree with that. I kind of feel like if you employ color strategically, anything can really be a neutral. I think if you take the same color and strategically place it all around the room so there's not a bold burst of it anywhere, then blue or whatever color you're choosing kind of becomes your neutral.
Suzy Chase: Talk about red. Would you ever do red paint in a room?
Emma Beryl Kemper: I've done it a lot. I love red. Really? Yeah. First of all, I should say my entire childhood home is red, all red. So maybe I was a little desensitized and I love it. It's a really rich color. The one in my mom's house is, it's like a brick red, but I love the color red. I think it can be really, really warm. I think it can be really grounding if it's used properly. I think certain shades of it, and also maybe if you just have one bold accent of it, it's probably a little bit stressful. But I really think for any color, as long as you're using it strategically and you're using the right shade of it, it can feel really good.
Suzy Chase: What do you think about the Pop of Red trend, that we had recently? Love it!
Emma Beryl Kemper: I love it too. I think it's great. I think it's really smart, and I also think it really works. I think that it's nice for a house to not feel so specifically designed and it does just kind of feel like a casual like, oh yeah, how'd that red get in here?
Suzy Chase: One thing I don't normally read about in interior design books is the closet. You have some clever tips for organizing our closet. Chat a little bit about that.
Emma Beryl Kemper: I think it's kind of the same as the entryway and that you really just want to make the most of all of the square footage that you have, and hopefully every experience in your house is a good one. I know even if my living room is all pulled together in the back of my mind, if my closet is a mess, I'm like, Ugh, something is just bothering me. And I think it's important that everywhere in your home kind of makes you feel comfortable, makes you feel relaxed. And for me, organization is a really big part of that. And I think having systems is the best way of doing that. So I think I talk a little bit about one thing in one thing out, which is trying to keep people from becoming too cluttered, keeping like with likes, so your sweaters in one area. Also things in terms of paint the interior of your closet a fun color, maybe do a cool accent light in there again, just don't.
Suzy Chase: I love that.
Emma Beryl Kemper: Yeah, just make it fun. Every space can be special if you put thought into it. I think.
Suzy Chase: And you talked about wallpaper inside our closet, and I have never thought of that, but that's the cutest idea.
Emma Beryl Kemper: Right? It's so fun. It's just a little surprise. It's not a ton of surface area. So how much money could that really be? I mean, unless you have an amazing closet, which good for you.
Suzy Chase: Yeah, good for you, good
Emma Beryl Kemper: For you. It's really the same thing just in every space, make the most of it. I don't think there's anywhere that it's dumb to make it special, whether it's the interior of a closet or a little forgotten corner. I think it's all important and all worth investing in and thinking about.
Suzy Chase: And you talk about matching, what does that mean?
Emma Beryl Kemper: Oh my God, that's a personal pet peeve of mine. So it drives me insane when I get my clothes back from the dry cleaner and then I find myself just keeping them in there and it's like, half my closet looks so nice, and then half of it still has plastic recipe, and I think it's nice to kind of merchandise it like a store. So get rid of those. Have everything be either a wood hanger or those little fabric ones can be nice, especially if you have a smaller space because they're skinnier. But I just think that it's those little details.
Suzy Chase: Now for my segment called The Perfect Bite where I ask you to describe the perfect bite of a favorite dish.
Emma Beryl Kemper: There's this recipe from the New York Times that's like charred broccoli pasta that my daughter thinks is my own recipe and calls my famous broccoli pasta. But basically it's just really, really, really burnt walnuts and broccoli in pasta, and it is the most amazing dish and a lot of cheese and lemon, and it is the most amazing dish. I could honestly eat it every single day.
Suzy Chase: So where can we find you on the web and social media?
Emma Beryl Kemper: My website is emma beryl.com and my Instagram handle is also at Emma Beryl.
Suzy Chase: B-E-R-Y-L-So you've inspired us to let go of perfection in our home and embrace that feeling of being truly at home. Thanks so much, Emma, for coming on the show.
Emma Beryl Kemper: Thank you so much. This was so much fun.
Suzy Chase: Okay, so where can you listen to the new Dinner Party podcast series? Well, it's on substack suzychase.substack.com. You can also subscribe to Dinner Party for free on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Additionally, the episodes will be available on both Decorating by the Book and Cookery by the Book. Long story short, you'll be able to listen to it virtually everywhere. Thanks for listening. Bye.
